Top 20 Places No More – ’64 Worlds Fair and Freedomland
I am slowly working my way through a countdown of the most notable places gone from the past, here are number ten and eleven …
1964 – 1965 Worlds Fair
Yes it was organized by Robert Moses, was not officially sanctioned, didn’t make any money, and stole business from other area attractions, so it did have a few negatives; but that is not looking at the whole picture. It also gave Queens its most enduring symbol, the unisphere, It was the impetus for the building of Shea Stadium, the Van Wyck Expressway extension, and the Throgs Neck Bridge. Many buildings on the grounds remain from the fair and still used today. The fair gave a generation of New Yorkers and Americans memories that have lasted a lifetime, many area residents look back on it as one of the greatest moments of their childhood. I read them almost every time I post a photo of the fair at the facebook fan page, and you can see the expressions of wonder in the children in many of the old photos taken at the fair.
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Freedomland 1960-1964
It was billed as Disneyland in the Bronx, it was a large scale amusement park right in the metropolitan area. It had a real Chicago fire, a train ride around the park, and a sky-ride. But it didn’t last very long. The ownership seemed to be running out of money as fast as a Chicago fire could spread, and it started to show around the park. Without new attractions attendance dwindled. By the time 1964 came around the thought of competing against a worlds fair, just a few miles away, for two years, without money to build, the decision was easy to make, it was time to close down. A lot of fond memories remain of the place, and today it is the site of co-op city.
2/9/60 from gorillasdontblog who has a great collection of freedomland photos
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WNEW FM RADIO 102.7
OK, here we go, more of my countdown of the top 20 most famous places that are no longer with us, this is number
WNEW FM , 1967 — 1998
At one time New York radio was arguably a greater extension of the local communities than it is today. It was less commercial, more independent, less corporate, more creative. It could help shape trends instead of being affected by them. AM was top 40, FM was the frontier. DJ’s experimented, talked to you for a few minutes, discussed the music and what it meant. DJ’s had personalities, but they also fit in with those of their stations formats.
Throughout its years from 1967 on, WNEW management steadily took control of the station away from the disc jockeys, but I personally think of 1984 as the high point for traditional rock music and for WNEW itself. We had among others Springsteeen, Van Halen, Tom Petty, Journey, The Cars, Pat Benatar, Joan Jett, the Pretenders, Van Halen, all great rock acts, at or near their peak of popularity. Stations like WNEW could play these right alongside classic rock bands like The Beatles, The Who, Pink Floyd, and Led Zeppelin, and it all seemed to fit together and make sense on one station with one audience. This would all change dramatically in a short time.
By the late 80′s Journey and The Cars seemed to be running out of gas, Springsteen had frozen out the E Street Band, and Pat Benatar and Joan Jett were no loner flying as high. Acts like Guns and Roses and Motely Crue brought headbanging to the scene, but theirs was a sound classic rock fans did not necessarily embrace. Newcomers like U2 and REM didn’t mix in as well either. By the time Nirvana and Pearl Jam came through in the early 90′s, the traditional rock music format, once thriving in unified form for years, had become completely fragmented. The rock station you could be in 1984 you could no longer be 1991. You could no longer cater to one part of the audience without alienating the other. Pearl Jammers didn’t want to hear the Who and vice versa, etc. etc. etc.
WNEW never seemed to realize what had happened and what it meant. If it was to survive it had to choose a direction to go in and fast. The logical step for them to go would be classic rock, they had been building an audience for years, they were the oldest name in rock on the air waves. It wouldn’t hurt to have a few good old on-air personalities who understood music enough to explain what their intentions were while sounding familiar to listeners. Instead, the station flipped back and forth between old and new; first they went modern, then they went back to classic, in turn alienating both audiences. When Opie and Anthony walked in to take the reins for the afternoon slot in 1998, there was nobody left listening to the station for its music anymore.
Looking back, to expect WNEW management at CBS to have the patience and vision to accept the fact that they would be running what was essentially an oldies station would have been a tough pill to swallow; and CBS is often impatient with struggling station formats to begin with. In 2005 they decided to kill perennial oldies favorite WCBS and make it JACK FM (JACK failed so miserably they soon brought CBS 101.1 back). So it’s hard to imagine they would have given WNEW much time. CBS has since brought back the WNEW call letters back on an internet station at wnew.radio.com, but the station seems to have a tenuous existence. I tried playing it today and got an error message saying that the station could not be found.
For more on WNEW and FM radio, read Richard Neer’s The Rise and Fall or Rock Radio . He is now (an excellent) host on sports WFAN and his book chronicles his years at the station. You can also read a CNN interview with Neer here, and more WNEW memorabilia can be found here.
Meet People Of The Places No More Groups On December 9, 2011
When I moved up from New York to Connecticut nine years ago, I never thought I would wind up devoting a blog, website, and facebook to it. Sometimes you have to leave a place to come back to it. I now spend a lot of time in NY in the virtual sense, but between living up here, running a toner business, and raising a family I don’t get to go back too often in the real sense. Relying strictly on virtual word of mouth, the page has grown to a membership of thousands and continues to grow. Thanks to Mitch Kahn and Dave Frieder I have a rare chance to come down and meet in real life on the 9th some of the people I have spent so much time with online.
I would really love to see you if you can make it. We will be enjoying a unique presentation by our own “bridge man of New York” Dave Frieder. Dinner from 6:00-8:00 PM, presentation at 8:00 PM. Dress is holiday festive or business casual, I would love to see you,
Todd Berkun
Mr. Places No More
Event Link on Facebook Event Link on Salmagundi.org
The Salmagundi Club, founded in 1871, is the last surviving brownstone townhouse and is located between 11th and 12th Avenues.
Deadline for reservations: Tuesday, Dec 6th.
RSVP directly to the Club at (212) 255-7740.
cost is $30.00 plus sales tax (dinner included – cash bar available).
Cash and credit cards accepted.
Mission Statement, New Page
This is intended to give some direction to the places no more fan page project and make a couple announcements. We wouldn’t be here if we didn’t love looking at old photos and discussing their history. I think of them as a window into our past. Whether you love old department stores like Klein’s stores, old amusement parks like Kiddy City, or old wooden lamp posts on parkways, these pages should be for you. We love the history, and we delve into a lot of related topics.
There is Much More Is Still To Be Found
There’s loads more photo images out there still waiting to be found, and we have only tipped the iceberg of what’s to be seen. There are newspaper pages, tax archives, private collections, and much more lying in wait. Just look at the incredible parkway photos posted to the fan page by Steven Waldman. We are now getting a look at Long Island Parkways past as they have never seen before. A look at the videos posted by Robert Martens shows us roads, buildings, and cars from a bygone era.
More Members To Come
There are no doubt more people out there who would love to discover the history of our pages. Everyone loves old pictures, everyone loves discussing them, so hopefully we can get the word out to them. While the growth has been continuous and steady, I think it can be much greater. The more people who join, the more photos we will find, as the individual contributor is one of the greatest sources of material we have. Who knows what photos the next new member might bring.
Great Contributors, New Friends
Each person who contributes seems to have their own specialty, so as a group, we have become a pretty strong bunch. I am very lucky to have met online the many people I have thanks to the group and page.
Try To Credit Wherever Possible
Please try to make an effort to credit the original contributor or taker of the photo. Whoever originally took or found that photo probably put some effort into it, we should give that work some credit.
Keep It Civil
Just about any discussion is welcome, but personal attacks are out. Factual corrections are encouraged, and while current political commentary is allowed, it is not encouraged. This is intended to be a place to escape a little bit. One advantage here is that people of any political ideology can find common ground about the photos and the history.
Don’t Worry About Definitions
The goal is to share things about history and what they tell us. If a photo is of something not in New York, or not a place, or is still standing, it is still fine to post. The title is a general guide post to the content and material.
A New Page
Old Images of New York 
Presenting an old photo page that doesn’t suggest things on it are gone. This way the Statue of Liberty or Empire State Building photos can seem to fit in better, again, open definition, not strict guidelines. I know I’m walking a fine line with the two pages, but the goal is to bring as many people in and keep the photos coming, hopefully a second page will help facilitate that. I’ve already got a few hundred photos up there now for you to look at.
Please Note
Feel free to post photos in either page, I just thought we should have a more New York oriented photo fan page in addition to places no more. Please join the new page and stay on board at the places no more page as well.
Some of The Places No More Pages
Long Island and NYC Places No More Fan Page
Fan page started in 2011, now with 2,000 plus members
Long Island And NY Area Places That Are No More Group
New Facebook Group with 400+ members.
Things That Are No More Group
Old technology, toys, etc.
Photo Americana
More General photography and history ( launched by Richard Woitowiz).
Old Places No More Group – Over 8,500 Members
The group that started it all, but is being archived and has not been upgraded by facebook.
Old Images of New York
A new group intended for old photos of our area.
Top 20 Places That Are No More, Places15-13
Rockaway Playland 1902-1985
Lasting into the 1980′s, Playland was still hanging on after many other local amusement centers had long since disappeared. Still hanging on after the Rockaways themselves had stopped being as a resort area. Much of the demise of the park and the town can be pinned on our old friend Robert Moses.
Moses was directly responsible for taking away a chunk of the park for his 1930′s ill fated Shore Front Parkway project (Moses really wanted a parkway to run all the way from the Rockaways to Montauk Point, this was to be the Rockaway section of it). His effect on the taking out the rest of the park was more indirect but just as effective. It started in 1929 with Jones Beach, which took beach travelers away from Beach Channel Drive and over to Ocean Parkway. Moses’s slum clearance program in the 1950′s uprooted the poor from the inner city and brought them to the Rockaways. Their presence removed any attraction for the area as a resort. By the time Playland was sold to housing interests in 1985 the area had few summer visitors. It hung on in its last years as an amusement attraction alone.
- 1955, photo from farrockaway.com
RKO Keiths Movie Theater 1928-1983?
Probably the most palacial theater ever in Queens, it was majestic and beautiful. It was sold in 1983 to a developer who was arrested shortly after making illegal changes to the property. The Keith’s was open for 45 years as a great movie house, but has stood for another 28 years as an unused and sad reminder of what it once was. In that time it has neither been replaced or restored.
The New Save The RKO Keith’s Facebook Group
The Keiths, looking west on Northern Blvd, October 18, 1936 (NYPL)
Forest Hills Stadium and Long Island Arena 1923-?
The US Tennis Open was played here once a year until 1978. As late as the mid 1980′s the stadium seemed to be doing well, it had a tournament of its own and other events to host, but it was not to last, the sponsors moved away and the tournament was no more. After one last attempt at concerts in the 1990′s, the stadium has since stood vacant. It now faces a tenuous future, with developers eyeing the place for their housing plans.
Rego Forest Preservation Council Page on the Stadium
Queensborough, Page 2, July 1932, Courtesy of Queens Chamber of Commerce and Michael Pearlman
The Top 20 Places That Are No More, 20-16
OK, here it is, the “Places That Are No More” Top 20 Places list. I’m basing this on several different factors including how many people went to the place, how important it was to those who went there, and if it offered something that could not be replaced. Thanks for viewing and I hope you enjoy the list.
The Oak Beach Inn, 1969-1999
Young people went to the OBI to party, politicians went out of their way to shut it down. Owner Robert Matheson is remembered for his feuds with Nassau County, but he was also a brilliant club promoter. He started out in the 60′s renting existing clubs and within a few years had four of his own. It was at the OBI that the Long Island Iced Tea originated. Local leaders probably think they triumphed in getting the place shut down, but we are now without one of the most festive clubs we ever had.
* Scandal at the OBI, The Matheson Inspired Book
WLIR Radio, 1970-2004, and Malibu Night Club, 1979-1996
Malibu was the club everyone danced to, and WLIR was the station everyone played … new music. Depeche Mode, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Cure, Nine Inch Nails, pick your favorite. If you really wanted to be cool, this was the station to listen to, with the volume on high. Malibu was shut down when the town of Oyster Bay refused to renew the clubs lease in 1996.
The Red Apple Rest, 1931-2006
The Red Apple Rest has been closed for five years now, and it is not likely to reopen. The volume it once thrived on heading to and from Catskill hotels is gone a lot longer than five years. Ironically, traffic has recently picked up on that stretch of road, due to the popularity of the Woodbury Commons outlet stores just north of it, but it is probably too late to resurrect The Rest.
* Recent Blog entry on the Red Apple Rest
Worlds Fair, Flushing Meadow NY, 1939-1940
This is a photo from the fair’s controversial World of Tomorrow by GM, in which the car and bus seem to be the only methods of transportation still around. In the real world of 1939, a subway spur was built for the fair, as well as bridges and parkways, but only the bridges and parkways seem to still be around.
There are plenty of places on the internet to view 1939 fair photos. The above shot is taken from here; other photo links, Television of the Worlds Fair , New York Times, New York Public Library.
Broadway’s West Side, Downtown Hicksville, Demolished 1967
The buildings on the right side of the street in the photo below were once part of a thriving downtown, and are now gone. They were intentionally destroyed by a New York State agency that decided a four lane highway was more important than a flourishing downtown. The trade-off has not turned out well for the town, and I think the ensuing years have only borne that out.
* 1989 NY Times Article on Downtown Hicksville which mentions problems caused by the widening.
… coming soon … more Top 20
More Interesting Ads
1954 Phillip Morris
There are a lot of now ironic looking cigarette ads out there. I thought this one was interesting because it claims to use scientific technology to protect you from harsh irritants.
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Fokker Aircraft, Circa 1930′s
The name sounds like something from Meet The Parents, but actually it was an aircraft company that was a force in the industry in the first half of the 20th century.
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Hoebich Studebaker, 1940′s
I couldn’t find much besides this postcard. I don’t know if anyone ever joked about the name during its time.
Asbestos, early 1930′s
It’s easy for us to see the irony on this one, but at the time, nobody had any reason not to think it was a great building product, and as a facebook group member said, if you still have it anywhere in your house, and it’s not exposed, it is should still be ok.
If you want more of these, we ran another series a little while back here.
Save the Orchard and Jones Beaches
It’s hard to miss the irony of the fact that two Robert Moses gems are now in various states of disrepair themselves. Two relics from the master builder, the man often portrayed as destroying the urban landscape, now face a destruction of their own. Two creations from his empire are starting to look dangerously close to ruins themselves.
These pieces are treasures to the New York City area and should not be allowed to go so terribly astray from what they once were. When Jones Beach opened 1929 it offered the first real chance for the population of a city to go to the beach and escape the heat of the city. It was revolutionary in its approach to what a park could do. Orchard Beach completed in 1936 was just as beautiful in its own right, and within New York City itself.
Orchard Beach, south locker entrance today
Now, more than 70 years after they were built, today’s New York Times paints a picture in The Bronx of a beach that barely resembles the one built in 1938. I was there recently and its not hard to see the signs of a lost past. The estimated cost of full restoration is $50 Million, and the ghosts of outmoded design a formal restaurant; and laundry for rental towels are places remain closed up for good. The Times piece states than a circle for food trucks, some open-air showers and a few bathrooms would suffice. The $50 million does not seem likely to come.
While in not nearly as bad shape as Orchard Beach, Jones Beach is having troubles of its own, Alexandra Parsons Wolfe, Director of Preservation Services at Society for Long Island Antiquities understates the urgency in her report when she says in ”better care” needs to be paid to Jones Beach’s defining features. A look at the pitch and putt area below shows that it doesn’t seem to be getting any care at all. Her report is 50 pages long and goes on to show troubling page after page.
Jones Beach Pitch and Putt Then and Now
Historians have given much attention in recent years with respect to the legacy of Robert Moses, books have been written arguments made, cases presented. Well here are are two real pieces of Robert Moses legacy which need a restoration in a much more physical sense. Improvements would make our visits to these beaches a much more positive experience. These are places many of us visited hundreds of times in our youth, and we have great memories of those visits, the next generation should be allowed to have its share of the same.
Jones Beach Preservation Society
City Island Historical Society - An illustrated talk by Deborah Wye is scheduled here on Sunday September 25 at 2:00 PM.
9/11/11
The tenth anniversary of 9/11 was a significant one. With ‘that day’ still fresh in our minds, yet at the same time thirty six hundred or so days ago, we now have a chance to look at the time since 9/11 with enough perspective to have some sense of how things are playing out.
For many years the lack of progress at the 9/11 site was a source of frustration. What did it say about us that we couldn’t rebuild something there? Now, we can now look to a nearly completed new single World Trade Center Tower as a sign of achievement. The building is in an entirely new entity of its own. It really remains to be seen if New Yorkers will come to embrace the new tower the way they once did the twin towers, but it is definitely something significant that has been built to replace what once was.
It was of great importance to see the twin fountains memorial on the World Trade Center site. This honors the 2753 or so lives that were lost on 9/11, and it was special to see Presidents Obama and Bush there together to help dedicate the site, making it a non partisan show of unity for the country. To have a physically completed monument, on the sites of both the original twin towers, as well as in Shanksville PA, is an important representation of both our desire to pay homage to the lives that were lost and our ability to build something to represent them.
The fact that this September 11th came on a Sunday and not a weekday seemed to give the day added importance. There have been some 911 anniversaries in years past that have gotten less notice, because they fell on weekdays. We had more time to reflect and give this one its just due. More of us could watch the ceremonies at the World Trade Center site. I am concerned that future 9/11′s, the ones that fall on weekdays, will not get the attention they should.
With that in mind I believe the date which now shapes our consciousness more than any other should be made a national holiday. On Sunday we collectively shared the moments of silence of when the planes hit, the buildings collapsed, and of the names of those who perished. It would mean a little more to us, if we could stay home to honor them. One thing more clear now than before is how important this day is. I think a national holiday is something that should be considered as we look forward to future remembrances.
The fact that there has been no major terrorist attack on our soil in these ten years is a monument to 911 in and of itself. We refer to this era as post 9/11, but the truth is the terrorist environment changed long before that date. The World Trade Center was first bombed in 1993, the USS embassies in Kenya and Tanzania bombed in 1998, the Cole in 2000. 911 wasn’t the day the world changed, it was the day we became aware of it. All too often in the past we would underestimate the threats, we have not made that mistake since.
One source of strife for the day came from Major League Baseball who did not allow the New York Mets to wear first responder hats. Joe Torre speaking on the part of major league baseball said that it wouldn’t be consistent with what other major league baseball teams wore for the day. All I can say to the Mets and Torre is, you now have about 360 days before the next 911 to work this out and come up with something better. Figure it out and don’t let this happen again, we all are supposed to be on the same team.
Overall the ceremonies before the games played on 911 were well put together and very moving. In general it can be said that as a nation we came together this year, just as we did ten years ago. There have been many issues upon which we have not all agreed, but protecting our country and honoring 911 has not been one of them. If the loss of life ten years ago can be said to have stood for something, I think we did a pretty good job of showing it on 9/11/11.
No Power
Posting historic photos and memorabilia on the internet is somewhat of a paradox. The use of modern technology to discuss old times is in contrast. Facebook, blogging, posting photos, all new. The Polo Grounds, Motor Parkway, the RKO Keiths, all old. We are in effect using all that is modern to get a better grip on all that is old.
LIE, July 13, 1977, during NYC Blackout
A comment that I often see posted about an old photos is, “times were simpler then.” I usually laugh when I see it. I cough it up to human nature, and just move on. We all long for simpler times. But is it true? Were the olden times really more simplistic than they are now? It is a notion to which who’s truth I have always doubted.
I have always felt that it’s just human nature to think of older times as simpler times. Sure, when we look at an old photo things appear as if they were simpler, but were they really? Billy Joel once said that the good old days weren’t always good, and tomorrow aint as bad as it seems. Within a few years we may think of today and all its problems as ‘the good old days’ and feel the same way tomorrow about today as we do today about yesterday.
The past was never simple, we definitely do tend to look at it simplistically. Looking back we have certainly had our problems, we have had our recessions, depressions, world wars, cold wars, urban crises, oil crises, noreasters, hurricanes, brown outs, black outs, none simple. But all that said, was the past nevertheless simpler in at least some way?
Perhaps yes. Today we live in a world where we are accustomed to having high speed computers with high internet. Both my business and my past time reside on the internet, so I spend a lot of time on my computer, and its hard to pull me away. There is always one more thing I want to do or need to take care of. So when the power went out this week after Hurricane Irene rumbled through I found myself in an unfamiliar place, offline.
Well, I was really only mostly offline, I still have a Juno dial up account which I use in emergencies, but compared to high speed internet it’s the dark ages. I can only do one thing at a time and it took a long time to do it. I have to concentrate on each task, wait for each screen to load, and move along at a snails pace. I got a lot less done, but the truth was, it was simpler. I did not have to think about the ten windows I had open on my computer. I did not have to think about the five tabs I had open on my browser, or the three pictures I wanted to post, the answer was simple, I could do none of those.
The Back of an old Modem, (recycledgoods.com )
Thanks to high speed internet and high speed computers, it feels like we can do a lot more, and the perception is sometimes that we can do whatever we want. Perhaps for the first time in history the technology can go faster than our brains can. The computer is here, just waiting for us to do something with it, we just have to figure out what it is. One problem is we still can only do one thing at a time. Maybe if we slow down we can actually accomplish more, and maybe, it would be a little simpler.
